To Catch a Predator…
So, instead of my last post I deleted.. I decided to talk about something I once discussed with one of my teachers… “To Catch a Predator”… Is it OK/ethical to do or not?
Many of you have seen the Dateline NBC special. It’s one of NBC’s biggest rating shows…
For those of you unfamiliar, I don’t suggest you watch it because of the obscene and rather shocking things these guys say and do, but basically they hire a watch group called “Perverted Justice” to catch Sexual Predators. They set up fake profiles posing often times as 12-year-old boys and girls and wait for one of these guys to IM them. They often talk to them for about a month and then the guy wants to meet the “girl” when she’s home alone… only to find Chris Hansen waiting for them to bust them.. then they end up going to jail.
Entertaining? Perhaps. From an Islamic point of view most of these girls aren’t really children. So they are basically getting caught trying to commit Zina. Which in all honesty they get what they deserve. A lot of the guys caught are married, teachers, bus drivers, a rabbi and convicted sex offenders.
Still want to send your kid to public school?
Perhaps the most disturbing thing is that MANY Muslims were caught on the show. One Muslim guy kept asking, “Is my family going to see this? Because this is going to ruin my life.”
Yeah.. not only your life, but your family’s life too.
I have mixed feelings about this show. On one hand I think these guys get what they deserve. But on the other hand. It is kind of entrapment. And more is being done to increase ratings now- like actually having the girl posed as a 13 year old talk to the guys for a while before Chris Hansen comes out saying.. “Why don’t you have a seat right there.”
One thing that I kind of really like about the concept of the program is that It’s actually making a REAL difference. A lot of the people that get caught have seen the program before.. and who knows how many people got too scared to actually go through with it after watching.
But then I got to thinking.. What if something like this were done in say.. Egypt? The streets of Egypt will finally be clear.. because most of the perverts outside and in internet cafes would be in jail. In any case it wouldn’t be something good to do as a Muslim, but it was a pretty amusing thought.
One thing I think “To Catch a Predator” should do is to do a report on the families of those people who were caught.. how their wives felt, what they will tell their children, etc. (which is actually another reason I have mixed feelings about the show… their families didn’t do anything wrong to be humiliated publicly like that.)
For once I wish a report could make just as much difference, be just as popular and not talk about sex, drugs and violence.
This is for you New Jersey Folk, guy got caught in Ocean County:
Maybe I should start a “To Catch a Hick”…for the Muslim crowd, and from behind the scenes catch ignorant people get caught saying something bigoted at the dawah table. Like this one guy who came up to me after I asked him if he knew anything about Islam and said, “A little. I know you guys chop off heads…. Good luck with that whole Je-Haaad thing” and walked away…
Islamic Journalism at it’s finest….
Wallahu ta’ala alem.
|
Leave your comments. Share your thoughts and remember to subscribe!
HK Says: 19.01.08 at 6:55 pm
“Maybe I should start a “To Catch a Hick”…for the Muslim crowd, ……..and walked away…”
Lol…that wouldn’t be so bad~ it would at least give some idea of which way da’wah needs to go
Reminds me of a street-video Muslim comedian Mo Amer did–going around asking the average American what they know about Islam. Some of the responses were just hilArious
AE Says: 21.01.08 at 10:32 pm
don’t have a tv, so went online to check it out… saw this… they caught the real the predator! thank god!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6-psmcDWps
theManOfFewWords Says: 29.01.08 at 11:18 am
Who’s the Predator?
I was outraged at the tepid criticism in the post regarding the “to catch …” program. The program is an abomination to journalism, art, ethics and law enforcement. The real perverts are the producers of the show and Chris Hansen himself.
First and foremost, it is not permitted in Islam to encourage people to commit crimes. Remember, we as Muslims have been ordered to command the good and forbid the evil. Any arrest made on the basis of the active encouragement of law enforcement is called entrapment in US law and is illegal. However, Perverted Justice, the group that does the actual entrapment of these “predators” is made up of private citizens who are not bound by the laws that govern entrapment. Thus they are subcontracting their services to the police. In essence, this is a way to circumvent the constitution of the US and violate people’s civil liberties.
This program also brings up the question of how the police are supposed to operate. Does law enforcement mean creating criminals and prosecuting them or investigating real crimes and prosecuting real criminals? There is no such thing as crime prevention. The trend lately has been for the police to entrap individuals in the name of prevention through various ambiguously moral means. One tactic, occurring in Columbus, Ohio is to have a topless woman flirt with passer-bys in the park and ask to see their privates all while the police are secretly filming. Another tactic, Operation Lucky Bag, is going on in NYC. The police leave a wallet, Ipod, cell phone or purse out to ensnare anyone who picks it up then arrest them and charge them with subway grand larceny. This is in conflict with the NYC law that gives anyone who finds lost property 10 days to return it to the police or find its owner.
I should make it clear that I find the activities of those humiliated on Hansen’s show deplorable; however, can we say that these men would have approached these girls without provocation and temptation? According to former “Dateline” anchor Stone Phillips “the decoy is the first to bring up the subject of sex.” Furthermore, men who cancel a meeting or are hesitant get a phone call from the young sounding voice to soothe their fears. Clearly, these are not the archetypical sickly perverted and violent child predators. Furthermore, technically these people have not committed ANY crime whatsoever as the person they are in contact with is not really a young teenager but an adult posing as one. So what they are being prosecuted with is a mystery to me. In the post I am responding to the author said, “the streets … will finally be clear … because most of the perverts outside and in internet cafes would be in jail.” Considering the facts above, this statement is a bit naïve.
It should also be noted that NBC pays Perverted Justice $100,000 dollars per sting operation. Furthermore, the police who participate in the stings are paid for their dramatic arrests, which are occasionally and needlessly brutal, like tasing and forcefully slamming one man to the ground when he was clearly not resisting arrest. In addition, NBC freely hands over copies of notes and tapes of interviews to law enforcement which is clearly unethical in the practice of journalism. Paying them provides them with the incentive to lie and engage in other shady practices to lure more men into their little trap. We can assume this is more about ratings than justice.
At least one completely innocent man has lost his life due to charade. He canceled his meeting with the phony teenager and so the police raided his house. Before they could get to him he shot and killed himself. Are these tactics protecting anyone? Clearly not, however the consequences of ruining men’s lives, families, reputations and utterly humiliating them on national television are enormous and absolutely needless. We can say for certain that this conduct is extremely un-Islamic as Islam is designed to guard people’s honor and protect them from falling into sin, not to entice them into it and then humiliate them for it. Furthermore, this program has created an internet community subculture of people who distribute the pornographic correspondence, including pictures with the names and addresses of any men caught to their jobs, neighbors and communities.
Surely, this is the real abomination and perversion. And every one who participates is culpable even us who watched the show. After all that’s what NBC wanted in the first place.
Shirien Says: 29.01.08 at 12:08 pm
I agree with you akhi. and don’t know where you would get the fact that I think this is a great service to society.. as i stated in my post its not something any Muslim should do. but in any case:
I’m actually aware that these guys are the ones initiating the conversation. wallau ta’ala alem. Perverted Justice is just that, perverted. I agree completely. And I also agree that it is entrapment. Another reason why this would be against Islam, is the obvious fact of publicizing fasad. This makes people seem that there is a lot more bad in the world and also gives people ideas to commit sins.
I don’t however, agree that these guys are completely free of perversion. Sure you actually feel sorry for a lot of the guys.. but i feel even more sorry for these guy’s wives and families. I dont really consider this show “journalistic.”
they’re actually being filed with some law suits. some of which deals with a lot of what you mentioned.
I like these types of discussions, It was something brought up in one of my classes and all those points you mentioned are valid and agreed upon.
theManOfFewWords Says: 29.01.08 at 12:52 pm
1. You said, these guys get what they deserve. Honestly, this feels like a justification for NBC’s actions. What happens to these guys is not justice.
2. The program is NOT making a real difference. It is only hyping the public craze on internet sexual predators. This leads to a frenzy of incredibly punitive and disproportionate legal sanctions proposed by opportunistic lawmakers who exploit people’s paranoia. Most sexual offenses are non-violent and miniscule sometimes even ridiculous like a 3rd grader kissing his teacher. This act will get him on a sexual offender’s registry for the rest of his life! I am for punishing crimes in proportion to their severity. Furthermore, research suggests that sexual assaults cases that happen through the internet are rare and that most teenagers are savvy enough to avoid weird characters. Most cases occur when the teenagers themselves are looking for trouble and are self-destructive off the internet anyway. This program only inflates the hype and makes it look like it’s a mega-crisis.
3. You suggested that this might be a good idea in a place like Egypt because it would lock away the perverts. Sorry, but as I stated in my article this doesn’t lock away perverts this locks away mostly harmless dudes who have been seduced by bait. Should these guys have come over some teenager’s house for sex? No. Should they have had those conversations on the net? No. Would they have done these things without being seduced by some chick posing as a teenager? Most likely not. The one’s that the police should really be after are violent, serial rapists, child molesters et cetera. Instead, they are roaming free while law enforcement plays these charades enticing people with mid-life crises into living their too-good-to-be-true fantasies.
Recant your top three points and I’ll forgive you.
Shirien Says: 29.01.08 at 1:55 pm
i think people have told you this before, but you write a lot for a “man of few words.” I’m not going to recant my points. but i’ll do a rebuttal to what you said:
1. Yeah I agree it’s not really justice. Because we even know of Hadith from the Prophet Salallahu alayhi wa sallam - the hadith of tawwasul (asking by your good deeds), when they were stuck in the cave and the rock that blocked it, each one asked Allah to move the rock- but did so by asking with their good deeds:
The second one said: 0 Allah, I had a female cousin whom I loved more than the men love the women. I wanted to have sexual intercourse with her; she refused but on the condition of getting one hundred dinirs. It was with very great difficulty that I could collect one hundred dinirs and then paid them to her and when I was going to have a sexual intercourse with her, that she said: Servant of Allah, fear Allah and do not break the seal (of chastity) but by lawful means. I got up. 0 Allah, if Thou art aware that I did this in order to seek Thine pleasure, rid us from this trouble. The situation was somewhat eased for them.
So I agree there could be instances in which they have the intention at first and then they dont go through with it and they are rewarded (if Muslim) for not doing it. so them getting caught before they actually did anything is not justice.
BUT justice in the fact that most of these guys are married with kids- yeah It’s hard for me to sympathize with people like that. and gay people too for that matter (the guys looking to be with younger boys)
2. I don’t take back what I said. Whether or not this show is indeed entrapment (which i think it is) and sick, it STILL is making a difference whether by means of good or bad (in this case we both agree its not the right way to go about it). BUT with that said there are many people who I bet didnt go through with it or stopped talking to young women online sexually due to seeing the program. and as i stated above, I do wish someone would come up with a program that made a difference but DIDNT deal with sex, drugs and violence. Hense, the making of “To Catch a Hick” which i still think would be awesome
and actually i’m not giving anything away.. but .. actually i’ll say it later on..
3. that was a joke. lol. Whatever you know guys in the streets in egypt are perverts, even more than the perverts on the show (most of them). After the things I’ve seen and heard and experienced… Those guys need to go somewhere… but yeah that was a joke.
theManOfFewWords Says: 29.01.08 at 2:25 pm
You said, “I’m not going to recant my points. but i’ll do a rebuttal to what you said.” Dont be proud. Admit when you are wrong.
You said, “BUT justice in the fact that most of these guys are married with kids- yeah It’s hard for me to sympathize with people like that. and gay people too for that matter (the guys looking to be with younger boys)” This is not about sympathy or feelings. This is about legal rights. What they do is deplorable and that fact is used against us so that we permit certain types of legistlation or tactics that exceed the limits of the law to deal with them. Do not be manipulated by this propoganda. Civil rights must be respected even for the vilest of criminals because if their rights are compromised all our rights are. This doesnt mean that they get away with what they have done, it means that they are dealt with justly. With all things being equal, If someone murders a judge’s friend or murder’s a stranger the perp should get the same sentence.
You said, “it STILL is making a difference whether by means of good or bad (in this case we both agree its not the right way to go about it). BUT with that said there are many people who I bet didnt go through with it or stopped talking to young women online sexually due to seeing the program.”
When someone says that something is making a difference, they connotation is that its for the better. Your welcome for that lesson. You also have no evidence whatsoever that this program has deterred potential predators. To the contrary on one of the episodes a “predator” actually said he watched “To Catch a Predator” the other night in one of his messages to the decoy and he recognized Hansen when he showed up at her place.
You said, “that was a joke.” Sorry, but it wasnt funny. Keep trying practice makes perfect.
Now that I have clarified things for you I think now you may feel more comfortable recanting. I am waiting. Remember, dont be proud.
theManOfFewWords Says: 29.01.08 at 3:24 pm
Who is “they?” If they is NBC then what we know is that many guys didnt show up. The because part is an opinion. NBC doesnt know why they didnt show up. To make themselves look good they can say it was the fear of the show and that they made a difference (for the better.)
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing, I am making valid points in response to your less valid ones (this is me being polite.) What you just did is level a false accusation about my intentions. Furthermore, YOU are the one who is arguing as I am correct and you are too proud to realized this and acknowledge it with a recantation of your earlier faulty (and unfunny) comments.
“Pride would be a lot easier to swallow if it didn’t taste so bad.” - Brad Moore
I see now why you wont recant.
theManOfFewWords Says: 29.01.08 at 3:38 pm
Discussion is dead. Debate has perished. Rhetoric is a mystery and oratory weeps.
Mr X Says: 29.04.08 at 2:51 pm
Oh! Great job!
Very interesting and useful post.
I add your interesting blog in my Netvibes page!